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[Music]

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yes hi everyone this is martin willis

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your host for the evening and i'm really

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excited about tonight's guest i read her

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book

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she is an exceptional writer i really

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enjoyed reading this the name of the

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book is called surviving death a

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journalist investigates evidence for the

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afterlife now i uh know of leslie from

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many years ago she wrote an excellent

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book on ufos called ufos generals pilots

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and government officials go on the

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record and a lot of people that i've

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talked to over the years said that is

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the go-to book for the real story on

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some amazing encounters and

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lots and lots of people love that book

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and this one is another great

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great book i'm so excited to have her on

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welcome to the show leslie

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hi martin it's great to be here yes um

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so

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this uh this book what inspired you to

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write it i mean you've had some personal

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experiences

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yeah but most of those didn't those

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didn't happen and i mean i've had things

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over my life but the main experiences i

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talk about in the book didn't happen

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until after i started it so that wasn't

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the reason that i wrote the book but

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this is just a topic i've been

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interested in for a long time and even

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though i was focused primarily on ufos i

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um have always been sort of researching

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this one in the background

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and when i went one month yeah go ahead

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no i was just saying i don't blame you

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it is a fascinating

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fascinating topic

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yeah and um my friend bud hopkins died

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in 2011 and you know being there being

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present at the moment he died certainly

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was a catalyst for me to want to probe

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deeper into the mystery of what actually

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happens because it's it's quite

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mind-boggling when you're right there

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for it

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and it's just sort of became a natural

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kind of evolution for me having sort of

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felt like i said everything i could say

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about ufos in that one book so i was

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ready to move into this other realm

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which is a much more complicated and

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bigger

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kind of thing to deal with and more

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difficult also oh absolutely and um

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there's so many things that are just

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hard to swallow that

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you know people have these accounts and

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one of the things that has really really

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fascinated me is

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to hear the topics of near-death

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experiences and i do want to talk quite

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a bit about that

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and also uh

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the book starts out with uh childhood

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like past life memories um before we get

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into all that i would like to just talk

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quickly about a couple of reasons why

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i'm kind of fascinated in this topic and

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sure

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uh one of them was uh i was really

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really close to my grandmother very very

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close

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and she died fairly young in her early

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60s

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of cancer

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and

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i was really upset about it

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as she was dying and i couldn't leave i

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was in school my father went down she

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lived in georgia and

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i always said all the good that came out

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of our family started with her because

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she was just such a wonderful person

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and uh so i was really concerned and

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worried and upset and all that i

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remember during school and all that well

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that night

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uh the night of her funeral i uh i had a

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dream that was one of the most realistic

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dreams i've ever had in my life

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and i i could even like feel air

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moving in the dream i know it's kind of

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strange now my grandmother always always

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wore her hair up she never saw her with

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her hair down ever

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and so i saw her standing there with her

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hair down and like moving in the wind

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wearing a pink gown with a pearl

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necklace and you know it's just so clear

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and she says don't worry about me i'm

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okay everything's okay stop worrying i'm

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fine and then she kind of faded away and

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that was it

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so my father came back from georgia and

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it's the only time i ever saw him turn

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completely white i told him i described

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the dream to him and he goes my god she

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had her hair down was in a pink gown and

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was wearing her pearl necklace wow i

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never saw her wear the pearl necklace

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either

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there you go so uh anyway that was just

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that's what has me fascinated in this

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topic

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yeah and there's so many people martin

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that have experiences like that uh where

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you know they

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and there's a whole there's a section in

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my book that deals with the end of life

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experiences and also with um after death

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communications which sort of uh

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is you know what you're talking about

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but people that have these vivid dreams

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and especially that one which is

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really evidential because you didn't

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know what she was wearing

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so how else are you going to interpret

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that i assume you're interpreting that

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as a visit from her

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i that's kind of what i've thought and

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you know i kind of put it away you know

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over the years and

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but if if the topic ever comes up i'll

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say hey look you know i had a dream once

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you know i mean and i have heard

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um it made me look into it at the i was

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only like 14 or something at the time

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but it made me look into it and i

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remember going to the library and

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reading about where someone saw their

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uncle's hat on it was some book about it

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someone's others their uncle's hat on

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the bed and next thing you know they

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find out their uncle had just died you

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know the stories like that there are a

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lot of them like that and so you know i

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guess um it's really meaningful to the

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recipient

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right and really meaningful and why not

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allow yourself to have that experience

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as being a visit from her i mean there's

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no way you can ever prove it but the

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fact that you know she looked like in a

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way that you couldn't have imagined and

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it was accurate

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and also those dreams tend to be so much

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people say that they're more vivid and

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more realistic that sometimes they say

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even then waking consciousness is

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yeah the same way they talk about ndes

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i'm sure that's you know you wouldn't

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remember it today if it was just a

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regular dream i don't think you'd

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remember it

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it was uh it was probably in my

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experience the most vivid dream i ever

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had

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you know so there you go i think it's i

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think it's a wonderful wonderful story

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yeah yeah and one other story i'm going

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to say and then that's it and the rest

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of the show is yours and that is uh

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my sister's

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sister-in-law um had ovarian cancer and

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died

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fairly young and

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it was right it was uh less than two

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weeks after 9 11. and

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she started

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with her her daughter was there and then

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her sister was there i guess her sister

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was there at the very end well she was

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talking to people that weren't there you

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know she as if they were there now i

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understand there could be something to

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do with you know maybe a change in the

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brain chemistry and all that

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but um then she kept saying look at all

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those people trying to get on the train

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and i just thought that was such

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an interesting thing to say you know it

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was uh

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like i said it was just right after 9

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11. okay that's it for stories for me

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no but it's true i mean there's a

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chapter in my book that's written by

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peter fennick i don't know if you read

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that but he's this wonderful elderly you

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know

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gentlemanly uh

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british psychologist neuropsychologist

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who's been studying end of life

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experiences for decades and one of the

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things he writes about is people just

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before they die seeing visions of

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dead relatives basically

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visiting them and coming back reaching

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out their arms towards them you know

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things like that and feeling that there

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those people are there to help assist

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them with their journeys

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now whether you want to say that's brain

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chemistry or not i don't think there's

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any way that anybody's been able to

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explain it that way because

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we're talking about people here that are

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conscious they're not on you know we're

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dealing with conscious dying here not

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people who are on a lot of medications

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or anything and it just happens all the

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time so

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it's certainly suggestive that there the

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possibility that they are connecting

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with some other realm which is a similar

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realm to where people go when they have

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ndes or other kinds of experiences they

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all kind of have similar qualities right

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you know that's what i find so

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interesting is that different areas of

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research tend to reinforce

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each other and that's what i tried to

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show in my book was how everything's

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interconnected all these different areas

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of research into these things right

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right now the childhood uh past life

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memories now usually they start

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according to your book

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um

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they usually start fairly young like in

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the two or three year old or something

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like that

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um and

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the one you had about james linganger uh

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i'm not sure that's kind of how you

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that can you talk about that that's such

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a fascinating story and all the things

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that were confirmed confirmed memories i

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guess you would call them

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yeah i mean what makes these cases

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evidential is when their memories can be

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confirmed right because otherwise you

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have no idea if what they're remembering

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is accurate or not but in the case of

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james and and there are many other cases

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like this he was literally not even two

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when he started to talk about his

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memories and he was uh just learning to

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talk

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and you know it take me too long to help

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tell the whole story but he basically um

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had these nightmares consistent

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nightmares in which he was reliving a

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pre a death of being being shot down in

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an airplane

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and he was absolutely terrified and

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screaming and his parents couldn't

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understand what was going on and then at

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first he wasn't talking and then went a

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little later he started to say airplane

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crash on fire little man can't get out

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over and over again he was obsessed with

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toy airplanes he knew a lot about

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airplanes he had information that he

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couldn't possibly have known about

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different models of airplanes how to

280
00:09:57,509 --> 00:09:55,279
maintain them and he over a period of

281
00:09:59,269 --> 00:09:57,519
time he told his parents that this this

282
00:10:01,750 --> 00:09:59,279
little man in the plane

283
00:10:03,829 --> 00:10:01,760
was named james

284
00:10:05,509 --> 00:10:03,839
uh and he said that it got shot in the

285
00:10:07,910 --> 00:10:05,519
front of the plane he was shot by the

286
00:10:10,070 --> 00:10:07,920
japanese he talked about the the name of

287
00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:10,080
the type of plane he flew the name of

288
00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:12,240
the aircraft carrier that he flew off of

289
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,240
in world war ii then the full name of

290
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:16,720
his best friend who eventually was how

291
00:10:21,829 --> 00:10:19,200
the his dad was able to find who that

292
00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:21,839
person was it's a long story but the

293
00:10:24,949 --> 00:10:23,360
the gist of it and he also talked about

294
00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:24,959
where he was shot down and these were

295
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:27,279
all facts that a two-year-old had never

296
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:28,880
been exposed to that he certainly hadn't

297
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,320
been exposed to

298
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:32,720
um and through that information his dad

299
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:35,279
who was determined to prove james wrong

300
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:36,800
because he didn't believe that this was

301
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:37,839
possible

302
00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:39,120
he was a

303
00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:40,800
eventually able to find out that there

304
00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:43,519
was a person who fit this the very

305
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:45,200
description all the points that james

306
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:46,480
had given

307
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:48,880
and his name was james and the other

308
00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:50,320
thing that happened was james used to

309
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:52,160
make a lot of drawings of this plane

310
00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:53,600
being shot down and he would sign them

311
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:56,000
james three and his parents didn't under

312
00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:57,760
could they'd say why do you write james

313
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:59,680
three and he'd say because i'm the third

314
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,800
james

315
00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:02,800
well the person that he was talking

316
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:05,839
about was james houston jr

317
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:08,399
which meant that james was the third

318
00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:10,240
james in the lineage

319
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,320
and so everything he said was able to be

320
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,480
traced to this one person and everything

321
00:11:18,790 --> 00:11:16,720
fit and they were so specific that

322
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,800
nobody had any doubts that this was the

323
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,120
person j little james was talking about

324
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:23,519
and he was a world war ii pilot who died

325
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:25,839
in 1945 was shot down

326
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:28,399
exactly the way james described it james

327
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:31,440
also met james houston junior's sister

328
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,079
who was 84 at the time

329
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,320
and she was absolutely convinced that

330
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:37,920
little james was her brother

331
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:40,160
reincarnated because he was able to tell

332
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,320
her so many specific things about their

333
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,560
childhood and their home life and all

334
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:46,320
these kinds of stuff that

335
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:47,920
j you know james couldn't possibly have

336
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,399
known so that's the story in a nutshell

337
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:53,040
yeah more detail in the book of course

338
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:54,800
yes oh yes it was

339
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:57,920
really amazing um and then they actually

340
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:00,480
put closure to it by actually going out

341
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:03,200
on a boat and where he was actually shot

342
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:06,880
down and he sobbed and sobbed and sobbed

343
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:08,560
all right really a touching story he was

344
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,160
eight years old at that time yeah they

345
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,920
went right to the spot where the plane

346
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:13,760
went down because they had a map that

347
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:15,680
his dad was able to find through all the

348
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,240
records that he was able to find and uh

349
00:12:22,829 --> 00:12:20,079
they did the ceremony yeah and james

350
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:22,839
just had this kind of cathartic

351
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:25,519
experience of sobbing and saying goodbye

352
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:27,839
you know he saluted and said said

353
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:30,240
goodbye to james houston junior and kind

354
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,480
of moved on with his life after that now

355
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,560
you met him when he was 18. i met him

356
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,160
when he's 18. he was very internalized

357
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,160
for him i mean that's the thing it was

358
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,040
so emotional and so internalized

359
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:43,200
that um it's hard to imagine that it's

360
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,639
just with some kind of psychic

361
00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:46,320
perception that he was having about this

362
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:48,800
person he really felt you know as far as

363
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:51,680
he was concerned he was that person

364
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:52,880
and how does

365
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:54,399
how does someone move on and have a

366
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,800
normal life after something like that

367
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:58,639
well i mean what usually happens is the

368
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,360
kids forget between like starting around

369
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:03,519
five or six they tend to forget all

370
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:04,959
these things and they just go to school

371
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:06,240
and they you know and that happened to

372
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:08,000
james lininger too i mean even though he

373
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:09,360
was eight when he had that kind of

374
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,760
catharsis he had really started to

375
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:13,600
forget about the memories themselves and

376
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:16,000
he was a very normal kid

377
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,600
so you know even though he after the

378
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:19,440
nightmare stopped i mean that was really

379
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:21,680
really difficult but um eventually those

380
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:23,360
stopped and he just is a normal kid and

381
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:25,519
he he did extremely well in school and

382
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:26,399
he's

383
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:29,360
very well adjusted and you know so

384
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,120
and the cases are a lot of cases on

385
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:32,639
record at the university of virginia

386
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:34,240
that are similar to this they have a big

387
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:35,920
database of of cases they've been

388
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,320
investigating for many decades and the

389
00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:40,560
norm is that the child does forget about

390
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,200
it

391
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:42,959
after you know usually when they start

392
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,880
to go to school they get more socialized

393
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:46,399
they get more involved in the outside

394
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:47,519
world

395
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:49,839
and but but lots of times they need to

396
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:51,440
have some kind of a

397
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:53,920
experience to sort of heal them which

398
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:56,000
might mean meeting the previous family

399
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,839
or going back to the home from the

400
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,839
previous life or

401
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:01,519
something that kind of brings them some

402
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,320
kind of closure to the whole thing

403
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:06,320
how how would science

404
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:07,680
uh approach

405
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,639
looking at this and

406
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:12,240
you know you said there was a study at

407
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:13,680
the university

408
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,399
um a lot of documented cases how does

409
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:19,199
science look at something like this and

410
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,560
you know they always try to come up with

411
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:22,399
a solution

412
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,600
yeah and i don't know what you mean when

413
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:25,680
you say science but the people at the

414
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,800
university of virginia have been

415
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:29,040
studying this are the main pioneer for

416
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:30,720
this work was a psychiatrist his name

417
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,199
was ian stevenson and he spent decades

418
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,760
and decades studying it he died in 2007

419
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:37,440
and now there's another a child

420
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:40,160
psychiatrist who has sort of taken on

421
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:42,160
ian stevenson's work his name is jim

422
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,199
tucker

423
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,880
and he wrote a chapter in my book

424
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,240
actually about some of the cases from

425
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:48,480
around the world so i guess they're not

426
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:50,160
science i mean when you may be talking

427
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,959
about the skeptics how do they handle it

428
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,880
well and uh yeah well you know when you

429
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,880
say science i don't think anybody nobody

430
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:59,279
can explain it that's for sure yeah i

431
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,639
mean nobody can but you know the people

432
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,240
who have studied it

433
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,839
these two psychiatrists that i

434
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:06,240
referenced i mean they they think that

435
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:08,560
the child most likely was reborn because

436
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:10,079
they can't think of any other way of

437
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:11,600
explaining it

438
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:13,920
but we can't prove that but it's very

439
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:16,399
hard to explain it

440
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,160
and that's the problem

441
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:20,079
right right

442
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:20,880
so

443
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:22,560
the um

444
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:26,560
when someone has this type of experience

445
00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:27,519
and

446
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,760
do you know how how long

447
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,680
uh like going back

448
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,160
how far the earliest cases were of of

449
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:36,160
something like this in history

450
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,560
did you look into that at all well i

451
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,639
know that i mean there are cases on file

452
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:42,720
from ian stevenson certainly back in the

453
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,440
50s 60s i mean he's he studied these for

454
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:46,959
so long

455
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:48,639
but i don't think there was anybody

456
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,240
systematically studying them before him

457
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,240
so you know there's probably isolated

458
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,160
accounts of them in various places but

459
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:58,160
i've never seen you know the kind of

460
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,959
documentation prior to that that was

461
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:02,720
provided through this one man who went

462
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,720
around the world and just

463
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,480
documented these cases

464
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,320
so i really i couldn't i couldn't answer

465
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:10,240
that okay i told

466
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:11,440
a relative

467
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:12,959
as much of the story as i could about

468
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:15,440
james again you know about the airplane

469
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:17,759
and all the different things

470
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,399
and uh he looked at me and he said

471
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:22,720
well obviously the whole thing is a

472
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:24,160
fabrication

473
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,680
and i said what do you mean he said the

474
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:27,199
parents everything it's a fabrication

475
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:29,120
that's the easiest answer that was

476
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,480
exactly his

477
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:32,560
and so what do you say to someone that

478
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:33,360
just

479
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:37,120
mind made up well first of all i would

480
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:38,800
ask them if they'd read the case have

481
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,440
they read either my book or other other

482
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:44,160
you know accounts jim tucker's book so

483
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:45,920
if he hasn't read it i don't think he

484
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:49,120
has a right to make that determination

485
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,040
if he has read it

486
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,959
um i would ask him you know given the

487
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,720
circumstances that that he's aware

488
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,959
here's the thing i mean the cases that

489
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:58,639
are most important are the ones in which

490
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,519
a record was made of what the child said

491
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,160
before the parents or anybody had any

492
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:06,799
idea who the previous person was so

493
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,880
there's no way you could say after the

494
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:10,880
fact they changed what the child had

495
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,760
said to match the previous person

496
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,120
but i mean if they want to say the whole

497
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,360
thing was faked

498
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:19,199
it's just to me it's inconceivable to

499
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,799
jim tucker it's inconceivable because

500
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:22,319
you have to know the case you have to

501
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:24,160
know the family they don't get anything

502
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:26,160
out of this this was a nightmare for

503
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,240
them i mean nobody you can't get a

504
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,400
two-year-old to fake nightmares you

505
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,720
can't get a two-year-old fake

506
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,400
talking about the name of the uh

507
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,320
aircraft carrier that he flew off of in

508
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,840
world war ii and you're sitting there

509
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,919
and it comes out of his mouth

510
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:41,919
um a lot of this stuff's recorded i mean

511
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:42,799
the

512
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,440
that's basically what he was saying

513
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:50,960
yeah i mean you know a lot of it was uh

514
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:53,760
was recorded and you'd have to ask what

515
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,720
they would get out of this yeah yeah i

516
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:59,039
mean you know anyway i just i i think

517
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,720
that that's a longer discussion i mean

518
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,480
i'd be happy i i'd i'd be happy to

519
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:04,559
discuss that hypothesis was somebody who

520
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:06,799
had actually studied the case first

521
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,880
somebody who had met the parents met the

522
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:11,120
family and studied the case and you know

523
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:12,720
debunkers tend to just come up with

524
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:15,440
things like that the ufo people do too

525
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:16,640
when they haven't even done their

526
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:17,679
homework

527
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:20,480
yes yes oh i'm familiar with all that

528
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:22,720
you know exactly what you're saying and

529
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,080
um now

530
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:26,640
when you say there's a lot of cases how

531
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:29,440
many cases would you think are and a lot

532
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:31,520
of them were in india did i read that in

533
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:34,000
your book i mean a lot of them were uh

534
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:37,760
are and were in um india asian countries

535
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:40,720
sri lanka places burma

536
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,000
places in which um the culture accepts

537
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:46,080
the reality or the belief system of

538
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:49,280
reincarnation so they talk about it more

539
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:50,799
and it's just part of the culture and i

540
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:53,039
think uh that's why these two cases that

541
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:54,320
i document in the book are so

542
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:55,919
interesting because they're american

543
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:59,200
cases you don't have them as often

544
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,640
there are many cases that have been

545
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,080
reported in

546
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,080
other countries like thailand's another

547
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,640
big one but on record at the division of

548
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:08,320
perceptual studies at the university of

549
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:12,000
virginia they have 2 500 cases of these

550
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,200
reincarnations yeah what 1400 of them

551
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,679
have been solved and by solved we mean

552
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,039
they've been able to find who the

553
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:21,679
previous person actually was and that it

554
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:23,039
matches

555
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,480
and 350 of them the previous personality

556
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,640
was a stranger to the family which is an

557
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,640
important makes it more evidential there

558
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,240
are some cases in which

559
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,240
the the previous personality turns out

560
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:37,039
to be a relative like a grandfather

561
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:38,880
or there's some cases in america like

562
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:41,200
that or they might be somebody who lives

563
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:43,039
in the next village who it might be

564
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:45,440
somebody who only died a few years ago

565
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:46,799
and even though the cases are very

566
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:49,360
substantial you can always argue

567
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,280
well you know if it's a relative maybe

568
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:53,840
the child heard something and around him

569
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,640
or

570
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:56,240
you know they're not quite as strong but

571
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,840
when you have cases in which there's no

572
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:00,240
connection at all between the previous

573
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:02,160
personality and the current family

574
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:04,799
they're like they're like for james and

575
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,039
also for james there was such a huge

576
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:09,520
distance of time you know the previous

577
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:11,919
deaths were within 45 and i you know

578
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:14,240
james is now 18 so it was a long time

579
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:16,960
ago and a lot of these other cases too

580
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,960
in asian countries there might only be a

581
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,480
couple of years

582
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:22,320
between the death of the previous person

583
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:24,559
and the rebirth of the next person

584
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,840
and so

585
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,919
that that also makes these two american

586
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:30,159
cases even stronger is that long time

587
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:31,919
period between

588
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:34,159
the you know the the birth of the second

589
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:35,600
of the child and the memory of the

590
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:38,080
person that that died before

591
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:41,200
so but there yeah so 350 cases like that

592
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,520
is pretty strong that's amazing now

593
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:45,840
since you've written the book have you

594
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:49,440
been contacted by anyone

595
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:53,280
uh in regards to like a new case

596
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,520
of a child reincarnation case

597
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,679
no but i would hope that if there was

598
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:59,679
one they would go to jim tucker rather

599
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:00,799
than to me

600
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,320
and jim is featured in my book as the

601
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:04,159
expert on these cases so

602
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:05,919
i'm hoping he'll get some new cases and

603
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,159
then i'll i'll learn about them from him

604
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:10,000
right but if anybody does know of any

605
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:12,000
cases i hope they will contact me on my

606
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:13,360
facebook page

607
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:15,039
yes yes because i'd love i'd love to

608
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,400
know and i think one of the important

609
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:18,159
things is for parents to realize that if

610
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:20,320
their children are talking about

611
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:22,240
past past life memories or something

612
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:24,559
that they think might be that

613
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,320
it's fine to just

614
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:28,480
ask them about it or not tell them that

615
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:30,400
they're fantasizing but just you know

616
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,640
let it let it evolve naturally and see

617
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:34,159
see what comes out of it i think a lot

618
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:37,200
of parents aren't even aware that

619
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:38,559
these things are even possible so

620
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,240
they'll just dismiss it

621
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:42,559
you know i i think like if it happened

622
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:45,520
to to me like i had a child

623
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:48,240
that started babbling things like that i

624
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,080
think it would be kind of scary i think

625
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:52,799
i'd be a little bit afraid of it

626
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,960
um because it kind of

627
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,640
rocks the world really that you're used

628
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:58,720
to totally and it's frightening when

629
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:01,280
your child is having nightmares repeated

630
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:02,960
nightmares and you know you can't stop

631
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,600
them and you don't understand why

632
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,200
i mean it was very very frightening for

633
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:09,360
the parents and a lot of the cases of

634
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:11,919
children having these experiences are

635
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:13,679
having nightmares

636
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:14,720
a lot of them are i mean there's

637
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:16,240
certainly the two cases that i deal with

638
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,320
in my book they did i don't think it's

639
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,480
probably not true every time but there's

640
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:22,320
usually very strong memories of the

641
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,039
previous death and it usually is a sort

642
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,440
of what we call an unnatural death the

643
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:29,440
person died young the person died

644
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,480
violently like in a crime or in a battle

645
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,039
at war or something like that

646
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,280
the majority of the cases have are

647
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:38,799
involved deaths like that which i think

648
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,480
is sort of interesting it's almost as if

649
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:42,320
you might imagine that there's something

650
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,480
unfinished for them you know their life

651
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,799
was cut short and it was cut short very

652
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,960
violently in a lot of cases like it was

653
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:50,720
for james

654
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:53,200
so that's one theory anyway that maybe

655
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,280
something is is carrying over because

656
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,280
it's not finished for them but that's

657
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,919
just a theory i don't know some of the

658
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:01,440
things i've heard about people talk in

659
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,559
the past

660
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:05,120
uh regarding reincarnation i've always

661
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,799
thought we're kind of bogus because they

662
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,799
were always someone famous like

663
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,799
you know napoleon iii or you know

664
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:12,720
someone like that you know it's not just

665
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:15,360
like the person you know in the stall in

666
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,880
the barn or something they always have

667
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:19,200
to be someone really famous or noted

668
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:21,120
that's when i always think

669
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:22,720
that doesn't matter oh i know i agree

670
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:25,120
and those are usually adults too yeah i

671
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:26,640
mean the cases that are the most

672
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,720
evidential for this are these young

673
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:30,720
children who have not been exposed to

674
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,919
any of that they don't even have a

675
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:34,000
concept of what death is

676
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,760
right when you think about it how old

677
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:37,760
were you when you learned that we we die

678
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:38,720
you know and here you have a

679
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:41,520
two-year-old talking about being shot

680
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:44,080
down in an airplane yeah with a complete

681
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,159
concept of what death is and he's never

682
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:48,080
been told about it

683
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:50,240
so you know compare that and then being

684
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,840
able to coming out with very very

685
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:53,760
specific facts that can later be

686
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:55,600
verified i mean you compare that to a

687
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:57,919
case of an adult saying they were

688
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:00,480
napoleon or joan of arc or something it

689
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:02,640
just you know there's no comparison in

690
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,799
terms of evidence the evidence

691
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:05,520
right

692
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:07,039
you know as far as i'm concerned that

693
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:08,720
particular case

694
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:11,120
um must be one of the strongest cases

695
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,159
out there

696
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:14,080
um on record

697
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,679
i think it is and again it's sort of an

698
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:17,679
irony that it happens to be in america

699
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,000
yeah when you know some most of the

700
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,919
cases are not in america but it is

701
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:23,600
interesting and the other case i write

702
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:26,320
about of ryan hammonds is also very very

703
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,799
strong another american case

704
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,720
so it is they are really really

705
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:32,400
extraordinary cases

706
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,440
now i want to move on and talk about

707
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,760
what i think is a very very interesting

708
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:39,360
topic and that's the near-death

709
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,279
experiences

710
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:43,520
you know i've heard of those for years

711
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,520
and years

712
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,679
not never first hand or anything like

713
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:49,679
that or not you know never i've never

714
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:50,960
actually spoken to anyone that's

715
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:52,880
actually had one but i've read a lot

716
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:54,159
about it over the years and it's

717
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:55,760
fascinated me

718
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,640
that a lot and the

719
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:00,400
the chapter you have called

720
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:03,200
shoe on the ledge um about the migrant

721
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:07,440
uh migrant uh worker named maria can you

722
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,000
tell the um audience about that that is

723
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,400
a fascinating story sure and just to

724
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:15,120
make the distinction between vertical

725
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:17,440
out-of-body experiences and near-death

726
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:19,919
experiences two different things

727
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,880
and so

728
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:22,400
this story that one you mentioned is

729
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:24,880
about an out-of-body experience really i

730
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,840
mean

731
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:27,200
if you want me to explain the difference

732
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:28,880
i can or do you want me to just tell

733
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:29,600
them

734
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:31,360
go ahead please yeah yeah because what

735
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:34,240
we call veritical obes uh veritable

736
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,240
means they're evidential and the person

737
00:25:39,269 --> 00:25:37,760
goes out of their body when they don't

738
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:39,279
when they're like let's say having a

739
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,640
heart attack or something and they're

740
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:42,480
out they're unconscious no brain

741
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,520
function

742
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:45,360
they leave their bodies and they're able

743
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:48,159
to report afterwards uh specific things

744
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:49,520
that they saw in the environment or

745
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,880
things that they heard that can be

746
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,240
verified

747
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:54,400
so that's you know otherwise you have no

748
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:55,520
way of knowing if they were really out

749
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:57,039
of their bodies but they're able to say

750
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,120
in the next room i i heard so and so say

751
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,200
this and that that turns out to be and

752
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:02,720
they can it also allows them to

753
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:04,799
correlate it with an actual real time

754
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:07,039
event so they can know if the person

755
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,960
says i heard the doctor say this at such

756
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,400
and such a time

757
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,919
they know that that person actually was

758
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,000
unconscious but and out of a near-death

759
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:16,080
experience is when they will actually go

760
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:17,919
out of their bodies and then go into a

761
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:20,159
whole different realm which is as far as

762
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:21,840
they're concerned is like an afterlife

763
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:24,320
realm and that's a more transformative

764
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:25,760
kind of

765
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:28,320
transcendental experience that's not

766
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:30,720
really veritable but it but so that's

767
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:32,400
what's different about them

768
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:33,200
um

769
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:34,880
and near-death experiences of course

770
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:36,880
have a lot of common elements that

771
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,120
people report from all over the world

772
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:41,200
but this this case of the shoe on the

773
00:26:46,549 --> 00:26:44,480
ledge is really is so evidential as a

774
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:46,559
out of body experience that i think it

775
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,400
shows that consciousness can exist

776
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:50,559
independently of the body unless you

777
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:52,240
want to argue that this woman was still

778
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:53,919
in her body somehow but what happened

779
00:27:01,990 --> 00:26:54,960
was

780
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:02,000
went into severe cardiac arrest and they

781
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:03,520
everybody was rushed in and she was

782
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:04,799
unconscious and they were trying to

783
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,600
resuscitate her and when she came back

784
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,760
she told the social worker there who

785
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,440
wrote the chapter about this whose name

786
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,960
was kimberly

787
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,799
uh that when she when she was

788
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:16,559
unconscious and dead basically

789
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,159
clinically dead on that

790
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:20,640
in that operating room a resuscitation

791
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,400
room she had left her body she'd gone to

792
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:24,559
the outside of the hospital which was a

793
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,360
massive building and outside of one of

794
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:29,200
the windows in that hospital from the

795
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:31,520
outside she saw a tennis shoe sitting

796
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:33,679
out there on the ledge of the window she

797
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:35,919
wanted kimberly to go find that shoe she

798
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:38,320
was really agitated she wanted to prove

799
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,679
that she had actually been out of her

800
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:41,279
body and seen it

801
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:43,039
and so kimberly

802
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:45,279
went through all the rooms you know this

803
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,960
huge place she couldn't even go from the

804
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:48,960
outside to see it because it was too big

805
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:50,799
so to make a long story show she went

806
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:52,159
into every room look through the windows

807
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:54,320
she eventually found a window looked out

808
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:55,840
and there was this tennis shoe sitting

809
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,559
there

810
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:58,240
and what was amazing was that some of

811
00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:00,480
the details that maria had described to

812
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,360
her

813
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:03,600
about the shoe were only visible from

814
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:05,840
the perspective of being outside the

815
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:08,240
window so when kimberly looked out the

816
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:09,760
window and saw the shoe she couldn't

817
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,679
even see it was a scuff mark and

818
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:13,279
something about the way the shoelace was

819
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:15,840
tucked under the shoe so so she and she

820
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:18,080
took the shoe and she showed it to maria

821
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:19,919
but basically this that's what's one of

822
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:22,240
the things extraordinary about it is

823
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:24,320
that she was describing it from a visual

824
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,520
perspective outside the building

825
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,679
and uh so how did she know that tennis

826
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:31,200
shoe was there and all the you know she

827
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:33,039
covers in her chapter all the arguments

828
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,880
people might raise oh somebody told her

829
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,880
about it or she had visitors there or

830
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:38,720
they set it up i mean all of those

831
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:41,520
things have been addressed in this case

832
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,640
and um

833
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,960
you know it's very it basically suggests

834
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,960
that consciousness can function

835
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,960
independently of the body which is what

836
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:50,799
most of the out-of-body experiences tell

837
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:51,760
us

838
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:56,720
had the evidence of having been out

839
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,399
either that or she had some kind of

840
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:01,039
psychic perception from her unconscious

841
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:03,039
state some kind of clairvoyant ability

842
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:04,640
while unconscious

843
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,799
to perceive this thing at a distance

844
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,559
without leaving her body

845
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,120
i mean she also she also saw the the

846
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:12,960
doctor kicked the paper

847
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:15,600
from the one of the

848
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,559
machines you know making uh i i guess it

849
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:20,000
was maybe a heartbeat monitor or

850
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,480
something he kicked the paper underneath

851
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,120
the unit and she saw that and reported

852
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:27,120
that which is you know just so many

853
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:29,120
different things exactly she reported

854
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:31,039
other things too and things she couldn't

855
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:32,320
have seen

856
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:34,559
possibly from her prone position in that

857
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,880
bed and she was she had no brain

858
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:38,559
function or heart function or anything

859
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:41,600
during that time so that's that's just a

860
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:44,880
it's really fascinating a story of

861
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:48,000
someone who apparently left her body and

862
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:49,840
the the point is it doesn't prove that

863
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,480
we survive death but it certainly highly

864
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:54,960
suggests that if consciousness can can

865
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,520
function independently of the body

866
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,120
and there are so many reasons that we

867
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:00,960
have to believe that it can

868
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:02,720
that certainly opens up the door for the

869
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:04,640
possibility that at the end of life when

870
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,360
we know when we leave or drop our bodies

871
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,760
that perhaps consciousness continues

872
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,120
then also

873
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:13,279
i mean it just it just opens the door to

874
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:16,480
that possibility you know yes yeah and

875
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:19,360
there was there were some studying cases

876
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:21,520
too i remember reading that in your book

877
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:22,559
about

878
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:23,360
um

879
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:24,960
out of so many cases there was a

880
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,200
percentage and it was uh like scaled

881
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,840
down to how many people a lot of this

882
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:31,679
many people had

883
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:34,399
the experience while they were in a

884
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:36,640
a death state so to speak

885
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:38,720
um and yeah i think maybe it was around

886
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,760
25

887
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:42,159
right as i recall near-death experiences

888
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,679
and the near-death experiences of course

889
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:45,840
are are way more intense where the

890
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:48,559
person actually journeys to some kind of

891
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:51,600
other realm and they you know i mean

892
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,039
everybody's familiar that i didn't spend

893
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:55,520
too much time in my book on ndes just

894
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,760
because i think so many people are are

895
00:31:02,870 --> 00:30:59,840
familiar with them already

896
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,880
um but i did focus on one case of pam

897
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,480
reynolds which is a really famous case

898
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,640
and i let her tell her own story but you

899
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:09,039
know basically they're they feel like

900
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,720
they're in the afterlife realm and

901
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:12,480
there's all these qualities that they

902
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:14,080
experience in that realm which are

903
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:15,840
fairly consistent

904
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,559
um and you know light and seeing dead

905
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:20,159
dead relatives and usually they don't

906
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,600
want to come back because it's so

907
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:23,600
wonderful that seems very very

908
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:25,760
consistent and they're told they have to

909
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:28,000
go back for whatever reasons and they do

910
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:29,200
come back

911
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,559
but um the people that have that

912
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,960
experience martin are never afraid of

913
00:31:36,990 --> 00:31:34,640
death i mean it's absolutely

914
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,000
transformative for people absolutely

915
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:39,519
transformative yeah now i watched you

916
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,320
and i talked just before we started here

917
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:44,159
and i told you i just watched this movie

918
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,240
called discovery with robert redford and

919
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,480
you said you may not want to watch it it

920
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:50,880
didn't sound very interesting but i i

921
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,880
wanted to tell you what i think is

922
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:55,200
it totally wouldn't happen and just get

923
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:57,279
your opinion on it and that is

924
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:58,960
uh basically

925
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:01,679
um spoiler alert out there anyone that

926
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:05,120
wants to watch this on uh on netflix is

927
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:06,480
uh

928
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,279
he discovers a way to actually prove

929
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,200
scientifically that there is life after

930
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:13,519
death it's recorded

931
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,480
and

932
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:16,559
of course this is all fictional but what

933
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:18,480
happens in the movie is

934
00:32:23,029 --> 00:32:20,320
that millions of people around the world

935
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:23,039
once this is actually scientific fact

936
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:24,640
that there's an afterlife they start

937
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,320
killing themselves because they said

938
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:28,080
okay i'm done with this world i'm going

939
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,840
on to the next i don't think that would

940
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:32,159
happen at all i i i thought that was a

941
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,240
really weak point in the film

942
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:36,880
because i i think um you know who wants

943
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:39,679
to check into the next life if there is

944
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:41,760
one i mean

945
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:43,279
yeah why do it any sooner that you're

946
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:45,200
going to get there eventually

947
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:47,279
and most people have ties here they have

948
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:49,120
children they have families they have

949
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:50,720
creative projects that they want to

950
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,480
finish they have all kinds of things

951
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:55,120
there and if if there isn't if there is

952
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:56,799
at life after death then you would have

953
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:58,480
to argue too that we're here for a

954
00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:59,760
reason

955
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:01,840
yeah and so no i mean it seems to me

956
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:04,480
like a totally kind of creepy science

957
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:06,000
fiction theme

958
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,600
you know that i don't think is realistic

959
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,240
either yeah i haven't seen the movie but

960
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:11,679
from what i've heard i don't really want

961
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,679
to see it yeah uh

962
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:15,120
yeah i thought that personally science

963
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,799
could if science could prove it i think

964
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:18,399
that would be pretty yeah there was some

965
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,559
type of uh device and it was actually

966
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:22,480
recording what people were seeing and

967
00:33:26,789 --> 00:33:24,960
you know all this stuff and it was uh

968
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:26,799
you know parts of it were good but yeah

969
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:27,919
that was uh

970
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,799
that was a little off i think as far as

971
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,360
what people would actually do yeah if

972
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:34,720
yeah i think so it's just science

973
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:37,360
fiction yeah but if this became science

974
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,480
reality

975
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:40,399
i wonder how it would change

976
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,440
people's

977
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,200
lives i think what you just mentioned a

978
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,360
minute ago that maybe people wouldn't be

979
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:47,840
scared of dying i think that's uh that's

980
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:48,880
probably

981
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,640
uh you know that could hold some weight

982
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:54,480
yeah and i think they also might not

983
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:57,120
feel quite as devastated when someone

984
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,720
close to them dies i mean certainly

985
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:00,480
you're gonna grieve and you're gonna

986
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,519
miss that person but if you feel that

987
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,600
they are not fully dead i mean there

988
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:07,279
some part of them is going to continue

989
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:08,879
and that perhaps you might even see them

990
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,599
again when when it's your turn

991
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:14,159
it just has a very comforting effect on

992
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,480
people and i think it it could even make

993
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:18,879
life people live more positive lives i

994
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,960
don't know okay now

995
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:22,480
i've got a question here coming from

996
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:25,760
left field for you okay all right um

997
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:29,200
i i lost my parent both parents um

998
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:31,520
and i it was very hard but it was normal

999
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,200
you know i mean they were

1000
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:35,599
you know it was time for them um

1001
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:36,800
i

1002
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:40,800
was really really hard

1003
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:45,599
um i lost my dog last year last august

1004
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,359
and i was absolutely crushed i mean

1005
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:52,399
i was just so close to this dog um

1006
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:53,359
and then i

1007
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,000
start to think does it end with just us

1008
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,880
i mean is it because we're intelligent

1009
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:00,720
that if there is an afterlife only

1010
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,599
intelligence gets that afterlife

1011
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:05,520
or do people ever talk about the idea of

1012
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,880
possibly

1013
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:08,480
you know animals and then where does it

1014
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,400
stop from there you know how far down

1015
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:12,240
does it go to insects you know i mean

1016
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:14,400
good question yeah

1017
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:16,160
i mean i can tell you that you know and

1018
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:18,079
again i i'm not saying that this is

1019
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:20,000
necessarily factual or i'm not saying

1020
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:21,920
it's even anything i necessarily believe

1021
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:24,160
but i can tell you that mediums many

1022
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:25,920
mediums who i've talked to have talked

1023
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:27,440
about animals

1024
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,280
sometimes they'll do readings for people

1025
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:31,440
and they'll say oh there's a white dog

1026
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:32,960
here a little white dog or something

1027
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:35,280
like that which corresponds to the

1028
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,000
animal that the person had lost

1029
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,880
so and in terms of mediumship readings i

1030
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,320
don't think there's any doubt from their

1031
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:44,640
perspective that the animals

1032
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,440
go are also in some kind of afterlife

1033
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:48,720
yeah so maybe you're going to be

1034
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:50,960
reunited with your dog martin

1035
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:52,800
i hope so

1036
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,880
i mean you know i i don't know any more

1037
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:56,480
about that than anybody else all i can

1038
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:58,640
tell you is that i have heard that

1039
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:02,000
reference to by by people a lot that you

1040
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:03,440
know

1041
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:09,920
be to lose a dog absolutely yeah yeah

1042
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:11,440
it's strange it's like you would think

1043
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:13,599
that you know parents or something like

1044
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:16,400
that would be harder but this was really

1045
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:17,280
you know

1046
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,800
i i've told that to a few people and

1047
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:20,079
they kind of roll their eyes you know

1048
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:21,760
like how difficult it was for me but i

1049
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:23,680
was really really close

1050
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:26,640
i understand that yeah yeah

1051
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:27,520
now

1052
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:30,160
uh readings you had a reading i thought

1053
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,000
that was really interesting how you set

1054
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:34,240
that up with um with this woman in

1055
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,040
scotland um you did it all kind of under

1056
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,599
the radar so she wouldn't have any way

1057
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,280
to know about you can you talk about

1058
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:43,520
that that's a fascinating chapter yeah

1059
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:45,280
yeah i was because i'm interested you

1060
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:46,800
know as part of my journey here in

1061
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,200
exploring these very areas of possible

1062
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,280
evidence for survival after death i

1063
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:53,440
wanted to test mediumship because every

1064
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:54,800
you know everybody goes most people

1065
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:56,400
think mediums are

1066
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,240
you know sharlands or whatever and

1067
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,920
probably most of them are

1068
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:01,359
and i was of course skeptical about it

1069
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:04,560
so i i was referred to this medium in

1070
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:06,000
ireland

1071
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:08,720
who works through skype and so i set up

1072
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:10,640
a reading with her i took out i gave her

1073
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,280
a fake name used a different email

1074
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:14,880
address you know took out a whole new

1075
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:16,640
email address account just with a

1076
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:18,160
different name didn't she didn't have my

1077
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:19,839
phone number she had not knew she didn't

1078
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,160
have my skype address she had nothing

1079
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:23,920
not even no did she didn't even know

1080
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:26,160
where on the planet i lived and she

1081
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:27,839
didn't have my name so there's

1082
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:29,599
absolutely no way she could find out

1083
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:31,839
anything about me beforehand can i just

1084
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,440
interrupt you just for this yeah was

1085
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,839
there any possible way that the person

1086
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:37,760
that referred you would have contacted

1087
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,040
her and

1088
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:41,680
said absolutely not no no no okay no

1089
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:42,640
because

1090
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:45,040
of the integrity of that person okay i

1091
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,359
mean i'm absolutely 100 certain of that

1092
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:49,200
okay you know and they wouldn't even i

1093
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:50,480
don't think it would even occur to them

1094
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:53,920
to do that actually okay you know yeah

1095
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,040
but they have integrity um

1096
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:59,440
um so anyway but when we did the reading

1097
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,359
i called her on my skype and the point

1098
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:03,599
about it was was that she was just so

1099
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,480
accurate

1100
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:06,720
in uh in terms of what came through and

1101
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,480
the the two people that

1102
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:10,720
i had been close to who had died

1103
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:12,240
both seemed to have come through and she

1104
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:13,440
just was just

1105
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:15,040
point after point after point that was

1106
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:16,880
very specific and very accurate sort of

1107
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:18,480
like the kinds of things james lininger

1108
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,520
was saying you know very specific things

1109
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:24,000
and the the personality of the people

1110
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:26,160
also seemed to come through

1111
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,000
wow so it's just a very startling

1112
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:30,560
experience to have that i mean my my jaw

1113
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:32,960
is just dropping open sitting there and

1114
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:33,920
i was

1115
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:35,119
you know just listening to everything

1116
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,720
that she said that was so accurate and

1117
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:38,720
the book i i go into it in detail and i

1118
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:40,320
list everything she said i mean people

1119
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:42,640
can decide for themselves but a lot of

1120
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:49,109
very emotional for you

1121
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,040
well it was i mean i'd already had one

1122
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:53,200
other reading before this that one was a

1123
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:54,320
little more emotional because it was my

1124
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,560
first one but this one it was it was

1125
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:59,040
more just awestruck than anything else

1126
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,200
i mean it was just it was very wonderful

1127
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:03,440
and very uh awesome you know and you

1128
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:04,880
just kind of

1129
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:07,440
can't understand how it can happen

1130
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:08,400
um

1131
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,760
but it wasn't it wasn't really that

1132
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:11,680
emotional it was except in a very

1133
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:15,440
positive way um and then i taped it so

1134
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:17,359
then afterwards i was able to go through

1135
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:19,200
and analyze the whole thing so you know

1136
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,320
because i have everything on tape that

1137
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,720
she said it's also a record that

1138
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:24,240
that she actually did say what i'm

1139
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:25,599
saying she said

1140
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:27,680
um you know everything that i report in

1141
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:30,400
the book is a hundred percent

1142
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:33,119
accurate and there's no exaggeration so

1143
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:34,960
i just was really lucky to have found

1144
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,599
two mediums that were able to give very

1145
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:38,960
very high

1146
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,359
high level and accurate readings which

1147
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:43,119
you don't always get when you go to a

1148
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:44,560
medium

1149
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:46,960
but um how does someone like that know

1150
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:49,760
they have that gift i mean does it

1151
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:52,880
do you know how someone discovers that

1152
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,800
well the two mediums that i worked with

1153
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,800
both were born with this

1154
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,200
i mean they grew up with clairvoyant

1155
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:01,359
abilities and they would see

1156
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:03,040
you know like in the movie i see dead

1157
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,040
people you know

1158
00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:06,800
i mean they grew up having these kinds

1159
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:08,640
of experiences and they thought it was

1160
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:10,800
natural until they became old enough to

1161
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:12,079
know that it wasn't that they were

1162
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:13,040
different

1163
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,960
so they don't even really know how it

1164
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,560
happened they don't even really know how

1165
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:18,880
they do what they do

1166
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:20,800
it's just a very kind of inborn uh

1167
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:22,400
talent that they have

1168
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,680
and then they developed over and they've

1169
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:25,440
both been doing it for

1170
00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:27,520
20 over 20 years

1171
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:30,320
very successfully so

1172
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,520
um

1173
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:33,839
you know i have i've actually met a

1174
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,680
woman a little tiny

1175
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:37,920
french woman french-canadian woman that

1176
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:39,040
had

1177
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,720
this healing gift and i thought it was

1178
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:43,040
bs you know i mean i i just didn't

1179
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:44,480
believe in it

1180
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:46,720
and until um

1181
00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:49,520
i had chronic back pain for five years

1182
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,400
and in two seconds she completely healed

1183
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,400
that i've never had it again and oh

1184
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:56,640
that's great i asked her how did she do

1185
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:59,200
it how do you do it and she said i have

1186
00:41:01,270 --> 00:41:00,400
no idea

1187
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,280
and

1188
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:03,520
the thing of it is that

1189
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:04,880
um

1190
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,319
i the she it was like people went to her

1191
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,079
and someone kept saying go to her go to

1192
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,480
her so i i did and people were like

1193
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:14,160
going falling on the floor and i started

1194
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:15,440
laughing i said i want to get out of

1195
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,560
here this is ridiculous and so um the

1196
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,160
girl i was with just pushed me she was

1197
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:22,319
just go up there go up there and if you

1198
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,520
gave me

1199
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:25,359
a check for ten thousand dollars right

1200
00:41:29,829 --> 00:41:27,520
then and said don't fall down i couldn't

1201
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:29,839
have i couldn't have done it i've i've

1202
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:32,079
like rolled i mean after she heals you

1203
00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:34,240
you just fall down i just had no he's so

1204
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:36,480
strong i had nothing no power in my legs

1205
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:38,800
at all to stand up and i was laughing at

1206
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,800
the people that was doing it before

1207
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,319
oh that's amazing i've never heard of

1208
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:44,079
such a thing well that's fantastic i'm

1209
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:45,200
glad you don't have your back pain

1210
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,640
anymore i know and it was really bad it

1211
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:48,000
was keeping me up every night and all

1212
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:50,079
that um there's a gentleman wants me to

1213
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:52,000
say his name and i hope i'm pronouncing

1214
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:55,520
it right um john weiskopf

1215
00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:58,960
oh yeah oh yes he uh he's saying hi

1216
00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:01,920
and um he wants to know if you met uh

1217
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:05,119
even alexander or brian weiss

1218
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:07,280
i haven't met them in person no but i've

1219
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:09,920
read their their works and i loved uh

1220
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:11,359
proof of heaven i thought it was a great

1221
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:12,800
book

1222
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:16,000
but i know i haven't met them

1223
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:17,359
well he says hi

1224
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:18,240
um

1225
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:20,480
yeah hi john

1226
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,599
now

1227
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:23,839
um so your your personal experience with

1228
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:26,240
butt and and your brother actually came

1229
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,440
through

1230
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:29,520
um in this reading and that that's kind

1231
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:31,520
of encouraging and it makes me think

1232
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:34,319
that you know i'd love to have a reading

1233
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,079
um it just seems like it's really

1234
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:38,319
fascinating that they can actually

1235
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:41,760
pull these topics out that you know or

1236
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,560
that actually makes sense yeah i mean it

1237
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:46,480
feels like they've got the person there

1238
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,319
which is what they're saying they have

1239
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:50,000
but you know readings they're not always

1240
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:52,079
consistent i mean they can be great one

1241
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,839
day and not so great the next so it's

1242
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:55,760
unpredictable yeah

1243
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:58,560
um because i know some people will tell

1244
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:00,480
me i went to so and so and i had the

1245
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:02,400
absolute best reading i could ever want

1246
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:03,920
want to have in my life and then

1247
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,400
somebody else will see that same medium

1248
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:08,240
and say the reading was awful they

1249
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:09,680
didn't get anything

1250
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:10,640
wow

1251
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,160
so there's a lot of factors that come

1252
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:14,079
into play i think in terms of what makes

1253
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:16,400
it work but just to get to just to warn

1254
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:18,400
people about that but i was extremely

1255
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:20,079
fortunate to have these two very

1256
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,000
powerful ones then i was able to write

1257
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:24,160
about them so it was perfect

1258
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,079
and can you believe it's on skype that

1259
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:27,920
is just amazing

1260
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,440
yeah i mean the first reading i did was

1261
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,520
on the phone was on the phone she didn't

1262
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:33,520
even see me the second one

1263
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:35,040
i thought about well would it be more

1264
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:37,040
evidential if we did it on the phone and

1265
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:38,720
she was willing to

1266
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,319
but then i thought you know she's used

1267
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,480
to doing it on skype so i might as well

1268
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:44,079
just i'd rather do it the way she's used

1269
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:45,839
to but she wasn't like she insisted on

1270
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:49,359
it and she never saw me before that

1271
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:51,359
so you have to say you know how much can

1272
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,359
she learn from just looking at somebody

1273
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:55,280
i mean she might he knows your race she

1274
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:57,200
knows your sex

1275
00:44:02,390 --> 00:43:59,920
that's about it yeah yeah

1276
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:02,400
so you know so

1277
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:05,200
um there are some as far as you know

1278
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:08,000
there there's uh did you say certified

1279
00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:10,240
did i hear you say certified and i think

1280
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:11,440
i read that in your book how does

1281
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:13,599
someone get certified do they well

1282
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,960
they're tested

1283
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:16,800
yeah there's two organizations in the

1284
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:18,800
united states one calls for it's called

1285
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,960
forever family foundation which is on

1286
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:22,640
long island and the other one is called

1287
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:24,800
windbridge institute it's in arizona and

1288
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,560
they both have very interesting websites

1289
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:28,400
if people want to check them out they

1290
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:30,000
both independently run these

1291
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,640
certification programs for mediums in

1292
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:34,160
which they have to do a whole bunch of

1293
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:36,160
readings under control conditions and

1294
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,079
pass various tests

1295
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:40,560
in order to become certified and a small

1296
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,480
percentage of people pass maybe 10

1297
00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:44,240
percent or something like that and

1298
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,839
they're quite rigorous particularly the

1299
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,280
the windbridge one but they're both

1300
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:49,280
pretty rigorous

1301
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:51,200
where you have to you know basically

1302
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,880
you're under control conditions and you

1303
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:55,200
have to do blind readings with people

1304
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:56,880
under control conditions i mean i could

1305
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:59,119
go into a lot more detail but people can

1306
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,359
read about those programs at the their

1307
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,200
websites and the first reading i did was

1308
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:05,119
with a medium who was certified through

1309
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:05,920
both

1310
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:07,280
those programs

1311
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:08,880
that was one of the criteria i had i

1312
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,880
wanted to find one that was certified

1313
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:12,480
through both

1314
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:15,119
so she was excellent i wonder how that

1315
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:17,040
works for them is it kind of like the

1316
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:19,280
thoughts just pop in their mind and they

1317
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:21,200
just say them

1318
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,560
that type of yeah i mean i think it's

1319
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,480
different for every different for every

1320
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:26,319
medium because in my of a chapter in my

1321
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:27,760
book where i actually interviewed after

1322
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,200
these readings i interviewed both the

1323
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,520
mediums and asked them about how they do

1324
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:34,240
it what the process is like

1325
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:36,400
you know how did they learn to do this

1326
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:38,000
did they learn to do it so i have a

1327
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,440
whole sort of

1328
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,280
descriptions that they provide of what

1329
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:42,880
the process is for them and it's

1330
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,920
different

1331
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,440
for each of them

1332
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:47,280
so i think uh you know i think every

1333
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:49,359
medium sort of works in their own way

1334
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:51,040
but the crucial

1335
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,720
interesting question as it pertains to

1336
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:54,319
the question of survival after death

1337
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:56,480
which is what my book is about

1338
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:58,560
is whether the mediums are really

1339
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:00,960
getting the information from a deceased

1340
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:03,440
person which is what they are absolutely

1341
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:06,000
convinced of or are they using their own

1342
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:07,440
psychic abilities to pick the

1343
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:10,240
information up from me the sitter

1344
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,839
telepathically and that's sort of the

1345
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:13,200
question that i have to deal with in the

1346
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:14,560
book

1347
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:15,200
and

1348
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:16,800
the first medium that i read with laura

1349
00:46:20,309 --> 00:46:18,720
lynn jackson is very clear about the

1350
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,319
difference

1351
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:22,400
between information that's coming to her

1352
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:23,680
psychically and information that's

1353
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:26,000
coming to her through what she describes

1354
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:28,560
as a discarnate being so

1355
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,920
that's a question that has to be

1356
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:32,240
explored because sometimes um people

1357
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:33,920
will say well you could get all this

1358
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,920
information just telepathically from the

1359
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:37,440
sitter

1360
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,800
so how do they know that it's coming

1361
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,079
from a dead person and that's a

1362
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:42,160
legitimate question

1363
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:43,760
we have to look at you know with respect

1364
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:45,359
to mediumship

1365
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:47,200
yes and i do want to talk a little bit

1366
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:48,880
about that um

1367
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:51,359
someone wanted to know about uh astral

1368
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,200
projection

1369
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:55,119
is that any part of

1370
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,640
no i really don't know anything about it

1371
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,240
i mean i you know there were so many

1372
00:47:01,750 --> 00:46:59,920
interesting paranormal kinds of things

1373
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:01,760
and my book is very focused on the

1374
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:03,839
question do we survive death is there

1375
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:05,839
evidence to suggest that and that's so i

1376
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,359
had to i really tried to stick with

1377
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:09,040
information that really had to do with

1378
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,560
that question

1379
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,319
and so something like astral protection

1380
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:14,000
certainly shows that consciousness is

1381
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:15,680
more than we understand it to be but it

1382
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:17,040
doesn't really

1383
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:18,880
relate to the question of survival past

1384
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:20,560
death so that's why

1385
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,920
i didn't deal with it and i don't know

1386
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:23,119
anything about it but i'm sure it's

1387
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:26,160
fascinating you know the the space um

1388
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:29,520
apart like for instance when you said

1389
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:32,319
that the medium was it was almost like

1390
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:35,040
your brother and bud were right there

1391
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:37,680
and she was in scotland and that's when

1392
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:40,079
you you kind of say well space and maybe

1393
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:42,960
space and time don't really matter to

1394
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,960
right this well certainly not in that

1395
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:46,400
realm no

1396
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:49,599
absolutely not absolutely not yeah

1397
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:52,240
okay so now i want to get into um some

1398
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,319
of the medium ships and i told you in

1399
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:55,680
the beginning you know when we first

1400
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,640
chatted that i had a little bit of

1401
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,200
skepticism and the only reason i did i

1402
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,440
wanted to explain it to you

1403
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,119
like yourself i used to live in the san

1404
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,599
francisco bay area for nine years out

1405
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,319
there and uh i had a really really good

1406
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,079
friend out there recently he's he's

1407
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,760
passed away

1408
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:13,520
young actually with a heart heart

1409
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:17,040
problem but he was an amazing artist

1410
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,280
first of all it was

1411
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,599
an amazing magician like you couldn't

1412
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:23,280
believe he did things

1413
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:25,359
that totally defied anything that i

1414
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:26,319
could

1415
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,040
um and he did this over and over again i

1416
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:33,599
mean he was just amazing at it and so i

1417
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,160
i would say to him that what you just

1418
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,559
did was absolutely impossible and he

1419
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:41,359
said no yeah you know there's a way i do

1420
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:42,240
it

1421
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:46,880
your you know taking a coin a coin out

1422
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:49,359
of a bucket across the room holding in

1423
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:50,480
your hand and he'll tell you exactly

1424
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,319
what it is i mean he said there's a way

1425
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:54,079
to do everything

1426
00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:57,440
um so that that makes me a little bit

1427
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,359
skeptical about the seances in the

1428
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:00,960
seance rooms

1429
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,599
and legitimately so yeah i mean i'm

1430
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,200
skeptical too

1431
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,359
you know legitimately so yeah yeah

1432
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:09,280
because i've i've i know that a lot of

1433
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:11,359
people have been caught you know over

1434
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:12,640
the years

1435
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:16,400
um but you actually seem convinced by

1436
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:17,520
some of it

1437
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,119
controls in place that it can't be magic

1438
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:25,440
tricks because i'm sure your friend was

1439
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:28,400
not strapped down tied up and having

1440
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:30,160
somebody holding their hands and their

1441
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:31,599
legs when they were when he was doing

1442
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:33,040
these tricks yeah i was reading i was

1443
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:35,200
reading that yeah i mean you know those

1444
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:37,440
are like basic so before any scientist

1445
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:40,319
is is going to study a physical medium

1446
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:41,839
they are going to have the strictest

1447
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:44,160
controls in place like that and they can

1448
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,760
you know where the where the medium

1449
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:47,280
first of all the medium is completely

1450
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,720
unconscious

1451
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:50,400
now you could say he could fake that but

1452
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:51,920
he's like

1453
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:54,640
asleep and completely his body's totally

1454
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:56,480
controlled so any movement that that

1455
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:58,800
medium makes is detected by the

1456
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,119
scientists who are there so

1457
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:03,520
i mean um yeah there are definitely

1458
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:06,160
physical mediums who have been caught

1459
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:07,280
cheating and

1460
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:09,920
fooling people like there are in any any

1461
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,800
area you know there's always deceptive

1462
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:14,720
people but what we're in just like with

1463
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:16,960
ufos think of all the ufo hoaxes right

1464
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:19,040
right yeah but um what what i'm

1465
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,559
interested in is the ones that aren't

1466
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:22,640
that and there are some

1467
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:23,440
that

1468
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:26,079
seem to defy any ability to explain them

1469
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:28,400
away and partly because of i mean

1470
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:29,520
there's ones that i've experienced

1471
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,000
myself but prior to talking about that

1472
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:34,319
in the book i described ones in which

1473
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,559
they have been studied rigorously by by

1474
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:39,040
very skeptical scientists who had so

1475
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:40,880
much control of the space and of the

1476
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:42,319
medium that

1477
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,000
and that there was no way they could

1478
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:46,160
explain away what they saw and what

1479
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:47,680
happened and they were very careful

1480
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:49,200
about it so

1481
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:51,520
those cases are really interesting to me

1482
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:54,559
now were there were they in now i may

1483
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:57,200
have skimmed apart uh uh skimmed across

1484
00:51:01,589 --> 00:50:58,880
this part of your book were they

1485
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,599
actually in controlled spaces

1486
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:03,599
yeah i mean for instance usapia

1487
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,680
palladino who's probably one of the most

1488
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,520
highly studied physical mediums of all

1489
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:09,280
time i mean she

1490
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:11,599
the the scientists had control of the

1491
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:14,240
room they brought her to their room they

1492
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:15,760
didn't go to her room

1493
00:51:19,990 --> 00:51:17,760
and she had nothing to do with anything

1494
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:20,000
in the room you know except bringing her

1495
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:21,119
body in

1496
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:22,960
wow and they you know they they they

1497
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:25,040
take her clothes off they inspect her

1498
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:26,480
and then they're controlling her the

1499
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:28,079
whole time and there's a light on in the

1500
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:29,440
room so they can see everything that

1501
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:30,800
happens

1502
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:32,720
and um the carefully recording

1503
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:34,480
everything that happens i mean these the

1504
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:36,319
people who studied usap and it's a it's

1505
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:38,480
a very famous study that took place in

1506
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:42,160
naples in 1908 incredibly meticulously

1507
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,440
documented

1508
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:45,760
they were the most skeptical

1509
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:47,839
scientists you could imagine you know

1510
00:51:52,549 --> 00:51:50,559
they had already

1511
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:52,559
blasted you know lots of other mediums

1512
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,920
that they'd studied and they were

1513
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:55,920
determined to prove that she was the

1514
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:58,880
eusepia palladino was hoaxing

1515
00:52:01,829 --> 00:52:00,079
and they

1516
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,839
were forced to draw the opposite

1517
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:03,359
conclusion and it's very interesting to

1518
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,880
read their study because they described

1519
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:06,720
their own process of having to come to

1520
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:08,480
terms with the reality of what she was

1521
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,440
doing that they that it was genuine

1522
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:13,839
and they were determined to prove prove

1523
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:16,319
that it wasn't you know so it's it's

1524
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:18,319
really fascinating to read their own

1525
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:20,000
reactions to the whole process and all

1526
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,599
the different sessions they did with her

1527
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,760
and how they all evolved and

1528
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,280
and there was absolutely no way they

1529
00:52:29,589 --> 00:52:27,520
could explain away what happened

1530
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:29,599
so there are cases like that and quite a

1531
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:31,520
few of them yeah and that just makes me

1532
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,880
wonder why it's not more out in the

1533
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:37,040
mainstream if something like this is

1534
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:39,119
actually happening why more people

1535
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:41,839
aren't like uh addressing it or looking

1536
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:43,280
into it further

1537
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:45,040
you know deeply and you know what is

1538
00:52:48,309 --> 00:52:46,720
actually going on here

1539
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,319
i know i mean that's partly why i wanted

1540
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,839
to write my book because i like i want

1541
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:52,319
to say to people like look look at this

1542
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:54,000
you know but i think a lot of the

1543
00:52:58,109 --> 00:52:55,760
mediumship the physical mediumship

1544
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:58,119
studies were done early in the early

1545
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:01,599
1920s 30s i mean some people will say oh

1546
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:03,760
it's so long ago you know but if you

1547
00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:06,319
carefully study the reports

1548
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,839
they're just as valid as anything that

1549
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:09,520
would be done today

1550
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:11,599
i think also there are less physical

1551
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:14,480
mediums now up practicing that number

1552
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,960
one that will allow scientific you know

1553
00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:18,559
scientists to come in for various

1554
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:20,559
reasons they don't all allow it and

1555
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,079
number two there's aren't as many of

1556
00:53:25,349 --> 00:53:24,079
them there just seemed to be

1557
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:25,359
there was like the goal you know how the

1558
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:28,079
golden age of ufos was like the 1960s

1559
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,119
you know

1560
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:30,720
there was a golden age for physical

1561
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:33,040
mediumship too and it was in the 20s in

1562
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,040
the early part of the the last century

1563
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:37,119
and there was just a lot of interest in

1564
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:38,960
it a lot of mediums that were working

1565
00:53:42,549 --> 00:53:40,960
and a lot of scientists who were taking

1566
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:42,559
an interest in it

1567
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:43,920
and it's just you know it's not

1568
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:45,920
happening like that today i wish it were

1569
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:47,680
but i don't think there are as many

1570
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:50,000
mediums around as there used to be

1571
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:52,960
either well supposedly um

1572
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:56,240
let's see i uh uh who harry houdini

1573
00:54:01,270 --> 00:53:58,559
released a book in 1920 called

1574
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:01,280
miracle mongers and their methods

1575
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:04,559
and uh he was actually looking to try to

1576
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:07,119
find a legitimate

1577
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:11,200
medium and was never able to find one um

1578
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:12,480
so

1579
00:54:15,990 --> 00:54:14,559
it's just i i don't

1580
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:16,000
this is just something that someone sent

1581
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:19,440
me today and i i looked at yeah actually

1582
00:54:24,230 --> 00:54:22,240
he's very complicated i mean he actually

1583
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,240
i think he did find a legitimate medium

1584
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:27,280
but he went out of his way to deny that

1585
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:29,280
he was sort of on a mission to debunk

1586
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:31,520
all mediums

1587
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,400
and uh that's what he did

1588
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:36,240
but i'm sure and i'm sure there were

1589
00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:38,480
many that were legitimately you know

1590
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:40,160
frauds but

1591
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:42,640
there was one medium that he

1592
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:44,880
i think he treated incredibly unfairly

1593
00:54:48,790 --> 00:54:47,040
and was on a mission to

1594
00:54:50,710 --> 00:54:48,800
and did all kinds of sneaky things to

1595
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:50,720
try to prove her as a and it's a very

1596
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:52,160
complicated story we don't have time to

1597
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:55,119
go into it wow yeah but um if anybody

1598
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:56,960
wants to know more about that i can tell

1599
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,319
them about it but

1600
00:55:01,589 --> 00:55:00,480
yeah so he's a complicated character

1601
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:01,599
houdini

1602
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:03,359
uh now

1603
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:04,720
when you were writing this book what

1604
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:07,680
would you say was the most fascinating

1605
00:55:12,470 --> 00:55:10,480
part of the whole entire experience of

1606
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:12,480
writing this book

1607
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:14,319
boy that's a big question i would say a

1608
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:16,160
lot of things that i discovered the

1609
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:18,640
studies that i discovered that i didn't

1610
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:20,240
know existed you know that would be

1611
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:24,000
buried in some book from the 1920s

1612
00:55:29,670 --> 00:55:26,720
uh but that this thick you know about

1613
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:29,680
one medium really incredibly well doc

1614
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:32,240
yeah incredible documentation that

1615
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,240
um i'm particularly interested in

1616
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:36,160
physical mediumship just because i find

1617
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:40,480
it so extraordinary and so uh mystifying

1618
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,760
um

1619
00:55:44,790 --> 00:55:43,760
but you know my own personal experiences

1620
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,800
of course

1621
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:46,319
were very powerful and i write about

1622
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,240
those in the book

1623
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,079
and not just with mediumship but also

1624
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,640
with various communications that i seem

1625
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:54,160
to have received from what appeared to

1626
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:55,760
be my brother

1627
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:56,799
but you know the things that i

1628
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:58,880
discovered in the research world too

1629
00:56:01,910 --> 00:56:00,799
that i didn't know were there

1630
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:01,920
i mean i knew about the child

1631
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,599
reincarnation cases i knew something

1632
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:05,760
about near-death experiences and

1633
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:07,040
out-of-body experiences and

1634
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:08,880
consciousness studies and things but

1635
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:10,559
when you get into mediumship physical

1636
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:13,040
mediumship apparitions these kinds of

1637
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:14,640
things

1638
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:16,480
i don't know it just all kind of um

1639
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:19,680
expanded my perceptions of what what our

1640
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:21,839
world is and it also opens up me up to

1641
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:23,520
the greater sense of mystery that not

1642
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:26,880
only with outer space with ufos you know

1643
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,400
but right here and with our own

1644
00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:30,559
consciousness and our own uh physical

1645
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:33,040
world what what does it mean what lies

1646
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:34,319
behind it

1647
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,520
now what's that

1648
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:37,680
can you explain what the uh drop-in

1649
00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:39,280
communicator

1650
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:40,160
is

1651
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:41,599
yeah i mean those are one of the more

1652
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:42,839
evidential

1653
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:45,119
phenomena that

1654
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,280
i ran across

1655
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:50,000
which basically what it means is that

1656
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:52,000
in physical mediumship

1657
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:53,920
or it could be a transmedium but a

1658
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,760
situation where a medium is completely

1659
00:56:59,670 --> 00:56:57,359
unconscious

1660
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,680
and some other entity will take over

1661
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:01,520
their bodies and speak through them

1662
00:57:04,549 --> 00:57:02,559
somebody who

1663
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:04,559
you know normally it's it's kind of

1664
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,160
complicated to explain it but normally a

1665
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:08,160
medium will have one what they call

1666
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,920
control personality who speaks through

1667
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,280
them

1668
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:13,839
a drop in communicator is when suddenly

1669
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:14,799
someone

1670
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:16,799
speaks through that medium

1671
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:19,440
and introduces themselves and has no

1672
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:21,359
connection to either the medium or the

1673
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:22,960
sitters because usually there's some

1674
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:25,040
connection there's a reason for

1675
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:26,480
a being to come through it's very hard

1676
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:28,640
to explain out of context

1677
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,480
but when you have a drop in community or

1678
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:32,319
somebody who just arrives in the seance

1679
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,200
room

1680
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:35,280
and and gives enough information about

1681
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:37,680
themselves with no connection to anybody

1682
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:39,280
there so he's just sort of a mystery

1683
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:40,880
person to everybody there right he might

1684
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:42,640
give us a bunch of information and then

1685
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:44,160
later on

1686
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:46,240
an investigator is able to go find out

1687
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:48,240
that that person actually did live let's

1688
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:50,000
say they died 20 years earlier or

1689
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:51,200
something

1690
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,799
and that the information that came

1691
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:55,440
through was was accurate

1692
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:57,280
it's sort of it's very compelling

1693
00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:59,200
because um

1694
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:01,119
there's no reason that the medium would

1695
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:03,839
even have to connect with that person

1696
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:06,000
you know yeah or or that any of the

1697
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:07,440
sitters would either

1698
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:08,640
because um

1699
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,880
so that's and i do i have two cases of

1700
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,559
that in my book and it's sort of hard to

1701
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:14,559
talk about it out of context but um i

1702
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,400
think people when they read it will find

1703
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:17,760
realize that it's

1704
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:21,520
it's one of the more evidential um

1705
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:23,280
phenomena that take place it's not that

1706
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,119
common but it does happen

1707
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:27,760
i hope that makes sense yeah no

1708
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:29,839
i'm going to ask you for your opinion

1709
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:32,720
where would you think that

1710
00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:34,880
say there is life after death and the

1711
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:38,079
conscious leaves the body the material

1712
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:38,960
world

1713
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:40,720
is it another plane

1714
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:43,280
uh where where do they go and why do

1715
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:45,280
they you know float for all this time if

1716
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:47,599
they do actually do come back

1717
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,119
no i wish i mean those are the questions

1718
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:51,200
that we all have martin yeah and you

1719
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:52,799
know as a journalist i'm just trying to

1720
00:58:57,270 --> 00:58:54,960
present the evidence that suggests that

1721
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:57,280
that we even do survive

1722
00:59:02,390 --> 00:58:59,440
but the questions of where do we go

1723
00:59:03,910 --> 00:59:02,400
what's it like you know i can't i don't

1724
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:03,920
even deal with those because those are

1725
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:06,079
more metaphysical questions that

1726
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,960
a journalist can't really answer

1727
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:10,640
you know my sense of i mean from what

1728
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:12,079
i've

1729
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,079
talked you know from the physical medium

1730
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:16,160
that i sat with who i found to be really

1731
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:18,000
compelling just describes it as this

1732
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:19,920
sort of like

1733
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:21,680
the en your energy's at a higher

1734
00:59:25,349 --> 00:59:24,160
vibration and so it's it's sort of the

1735
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,359
way he described it but i don't know

1736
00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:27,520
anything about this really but he said

1737
00:59:30,630 --> 00:59:28,960
you know how when you spin like a rope

1738
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:30,640
around or something really fast you

1739
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:34,160
can't see it because it's going so fast

1740
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:35,440
so that

1741
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:37,119
sort of like that that you're just in a

1742
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:39,440
different vibration and and so you can't

1743
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:40,960
see or you know you don't have a

1744
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:42,240
physical body but you're in some

1745
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:44,319
different vibration and my sense is that

1746
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,400
it's a reality that sort of exists all

1747
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,640
around us that consciousness is is all

1748
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,240
around us

1749
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,480
but you know martin i have no idea at

1750
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:54,079
the end but the answer to your question

1751
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:54,960
is

1752
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,760
um you know that's just there's a lot of

1753
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:59,599
places people can go to try to read you

1754
01:00:01,670 --> 01:00:00,400
know

1755
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:01,680
you have to decide what you're going to

1756
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,160
accept and not accept from what people

1757
01:00:08,309 --> 01:00:06,160
what various people might tell you about

1758
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:08,319
that question or you can try to go into

1759
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:10,559
your own meditation and see if you can

1760
01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:12,640
figure out a way to contact that reality

1761
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:15,440
yourself or whatever but

1762
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:17,200
you know it's not really within the

1763
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:19,359
realm of what i'm dealing with in my

1764
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:20,240
book

1765
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:21,760
do you know anything about these this is

1766
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:22,880
a question

1767
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:24,720
and do you know anything about these

1768
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:26,799
ghost boxes that are so popular on

1769
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:28,400
youtube

1770
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:31,520
no what are they i have no idea

1771
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:33,839
it's just a question that came up

1772
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:35,520
yeah sounds like ghost if somebody was

1773
01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:38,400
just asking you that yeah no i i don't i

1774
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:41,119
don't know yeah well speaking of ghosts

1775
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:43,119
um you know i know that that's not in

1776
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,880
your book at all you know i mean that's

1777
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:46,240
well there is one chapter about

1778
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:48,319
apparitions actually oh well apparitions

1779
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:50,720
are go as ghosts same thing more or less

1780
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:53,119
yeah yeah yeah yeah and that was

1781
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:55,520
actually written by lloyd auerbach who's

1782
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:57,680
oh that's right i did read that yes yeah

1783
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:58,880
he'd be a great person for you to

1784
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:01,200
interview i have 10 chapters in my book

1785
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:03,280
written by other people right sort of

1786
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:04,960
like what i did with the ufos only not

1787
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:06,720
as many but i think it really adds to

1788
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:08,880
the book to have these different experts

1789
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:09,599
and

1790
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:12,559
their own voices

1791
01:01:15,510 --> 01:01:14,000
so one of them was the apparition

1792
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:15,520
chapters because

1793
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:17,520
there's so much there's so much

1794
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:19,280
information about them and i just didn't

1795
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:20,720
know where to go with it so i thought

1796
01:01:24,630 --> 01:01:23,359
i'd invite this expert on it to write

1797
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:24,640
and he he writes about a really

1798
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,720
interesting case of an apparition that

1799
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:29,040
actually provided information to some to

1800
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,799
a human being

1801
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:32,240
a lot of people

1802
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:34,559
saw the apparition it was an old woman

1803
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:35,839
and she would actually wave and she

1804
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,720
seemed to interact with this family and

1805
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,559
she was able to telepathically provide a

1806
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:42,480
lot of information to this child in the

1807
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:44,880
family who and then they were later able

1808
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:47,280
to find out that it was accurate to to

1809
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:49,119
the woman who had died lived and died in

1810
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:51,280
that house wow and this was something

1811
01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:52,720
the family knew nothing about when they

1812
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:55,599
bought the house it was an old house so

1813
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:56,880
you know it's those kinds of questions

1814
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:58,720
where you the kind of cases where you

1815
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:01,520
can actually verify something like that

1816
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:02,559
that

1817
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,920
was left over from the physical work

1818
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:13,440
life that that woman laid i mean it's

1819
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:16,319
very hard to understand it any other way

1820
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:18,319
and if it was that that means that

1821
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:20,720
there's some kind of survival

1822
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:22,400
i mean it's and there's there's people

1823
01:02:26,309 --> 01:02:24,559
also speculating that these type of

1824
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:26,319
things could be going into different

1825
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,960
multi you know into a multiverse and

1826
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:30,720
you know there's there's

1827
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,480
i'll make your head hurt to start

1828
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:34,559
thinking about something it can indeed

1829
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:36,960
can indeed yeah but i think there's so

1830
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,960
many different possible um there's so

1831
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:40,559
many different areas that i've drawn

1832
01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:42,720
from in the book that i think everybody

1833
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:45,280
will find maybe one that feels like you

1834
01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:47,119
know it's like the famous william james

1835
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:49,119
quote about the white crow

1836
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:50,880
um you know that you'll find you might

1837
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:53,200
find one particular element a bit of

1838
01:02:58,470 --> 01:02:55,440
evidence that really rings true for you

1839
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:58,480
as the reader and it only takes one

1840
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:00,160
to convince a purge you know like just

1841
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:02,799
like it only takes one real f real ufo

1842
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,799
one extraterrestrial craft to prove that

1843
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:06,640
they're extraterrestrial if we had it

1844
01:03:10,789 --> 01:03:08,160
sitting in front of us

1845
01:03:13,030 --> 01:03:10,799
um it only takes one case that's really

1846
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:13,040
convincing to somebody

1847
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:13,839
to

1848
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,960
bring in you know the best from a lot of

1849
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:22,319
different areas

1850
01:03:26,309 --> 01:03:23,760
and everybody will resonate with

1851
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:26,319
different sections in different ways

1852
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:27,520
also depending on what their own

1853
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:29,599
experiences have been too

1854
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:31,760
so i try to give people a context for

1855
01:03:35,910 --> 01:03:32,559
their

1856
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:35,920
about your dream about your grandmother

1857
01:03:39,510 --> 01:03:37,839
you know when you when you get to put

1858
01:03:41,910 --> 01:03:39,520
that in a context of somebody who has

1859
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:41,920
studied lots of those kinds of

1860
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:44,400
experiences that people have reported it

1861
01:03:49,829 --> 01:03:48,240
makes it it gives people um a sense of

1862
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:49,839
feeling supported for their own

1863
01:03:54,549 --> 01:03:52,240
experience yeah that it's really valid

1864
01:03:57,029 --> 01:03:54,559
extensive validity about it

1865
01:03:58,870 --> 01:03:57,039
yeah i felt better after i told my story

1866
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:58,880
yeah and then when you read the book you

1867
01:04:01,990 --> 01:04:00,480
can realize that lots of other people

1868
01:04:03,029 --> 01:04:02,000
have had the same experiences and here's

1869
01:04:05,109 --> 01:04:03,039
what the

1870
01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:05,119
the experts say who have studied them

1871
01:04:08,549 --> 01:04:06,960
you know and nobody's doubting them

1872
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:08,559
that's right so i have your book right

1873
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:12,480
here and okay yes uh and thanks so much

1874
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:13,280
uh

1875
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:14,880
for being with us tonight it's a

1876
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:17,359
wonderful book uh you're a very talented

1877
01:04:21,990 --> 01:04:19,599
writer and thank you martin yeah it was

1878
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:22,000
very enjoyable all the way through and

1879
01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:24,160
so you can find that on amazon and you

1880
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:25,599
also want to throw out your you have a

1881
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:27,520
facebook page as well right

1882
01:04:31,109 --> 01:04:29,520
facebook page and my website is uh

1883
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:31,119
survivingdeathkane

1884
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:33,200
so it's dot com the name of the book and

1885
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:36,799
my last name surviving death kean.com

1886
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:39,680
and facebook page also all right okay

1887
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:41,200
leslie thank you very much and i'll talk

1888
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:49,029
okay everyone so uh that is it for the

1889
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:51,760
show tonight thanks so much for being in

1890
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:55,680
chat and uh listening live and next week

1891
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:58,079
i'm pretty excited about next week it's

1892
01:05:04,230 --> 01:04:59,359
going to be

1893
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,240
evening or sunday afternoon that is at

1894
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:06,640
two o'clock that's eastern standard time

1895
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:08,880
and i'm going to be at steve callahan's

1896
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:11,839
house now steve was a lone survivor the

1897
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:14,880
longest lone survivor in a life raft

1898
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:16,720
after his uh

1899
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:18,720
his boat sank in the middle of the

1900
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:20,960
atlantic he's got a great story about

1901
01:05:24,150 --> 01:05:22,480
survival there's so many different ways

1902
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:24,160
that he could have not

1903
01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:27,440
survived and yet he made it he's here to

1904
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:30,240
talk about it and so that will be next

1905
01:05:35,190 --> 01:05:32,880
sunday at two o'clock um eastern

1906
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:35,200
standard time thanks again everyone so

1907
01:05:44,140 --> 01:05:36,960
much for listening and we'll talk to you

1908
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:59,029
[Music]

1909
01:06:02,829 --> 01:06:01,200
you find her

1910
01:06:06,549 --> 01:06:02,839
in the

1911
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:06,559
blue shadows

1912
01:06:11,029 --> 01:06:08,960
when the sun is gone

1913
01:06:12,420 --> 01:06:11,039
she dances

1914
01:06:16,950 --> 01:06:12,430
with a moon

1915
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,670
watch you by the fire

1916
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,990
coolness of the night